Cain supporters will cry bias, but clearly this clip deserves its own post. PD would love to hear from Cainiacs spin this.

Comments

  • Troy La Mana

    If I do hop off the Cain train it won’t be to Romney and probably not for Gingrich either. It will most likely be for Paul or a third party candidate since the rest of the pack does nothing for me.

    • Alaina

      Please don’t go third party… just hold your breath as you cast the ballot and hope for a better field in 2016.

      • Rob

        Look, unless Paul is nominated, Obama WILL be reelected in 2012. It’s that simple. That solid 10% voting base for Paul will vote for NOBP. It’s that simple.

        • AWB

          So what you’re saying, Rob, is that we should nominate RP because his supporters are blackmailing the GOP?! :-) I agree there are some hard-core Paulites who will write him in, good 3rd party or whatnot, but a lot of people are going to think seriously about whether they wouldn’t rather have Romney, Gingrich or whoever as president instead of Obama and they’re going to realize that it’s one or the other and they’re going to vote accordingly.

          As for Cain, sigh, his 9-9-9 plan had all the chance of a snowball in Hades. Can you seriously imagine a 9% national sales tax passing? The GOP is adverse to new taxes, so while he’d get some support there, it would not be unanimous, and the DP is opposed to taxes that disproportionately impact the poor, so……

          Knowledge matters and this clip ought to be the nail in the coffin of the Cain campaign. When you don’t remember your own core plan to reduce government (Hi, Governor Perry) or where you stand on arguably the biggest foreign decision of the year, it’s time to go.

          However, I do think Cain’s business sense could be useful to a GOP administration (Sec. of Treasury? Chair of Council of Economic Advisors) IF he can be persuaded to get off the 9-9-9 Horse.

      • Troy La Mana

        I’ve already committed to not voting LOTE. I refuse to vote for Liberal-lite.

  • Brian H

    I agree with you 100%. No offense taken at all. Your are exactly right. As a teacher my skill set is effectively educating eigth graders on US History from 1607 to the Civil War. I know absolutley nothing about running a business or finances in general.
    .
    Your education analogy is quite appropriate. What I do know is that there are numerous people who are better historians than I, however, they, too, could not be effective teachers because the skill set to be effective is much broader than being an expert on the topic. I believe the same is true of Cain. Although I recognize his business sense, I also recoginize that his lack of political skills and broader knowledge in other areas would make him a poor candidate and probably a poor President.

    • Alaina

      I’m definitely not arguing with you that he is a poor candidate… he’s proven that. As far as a poor President, I was hoping he would be proficient enough in the other areas that he could be super strong on the economy/fiscal policy/debt and get by with the rest… However, I think it was probably wishful thinking.

  • Jacosta

    Love Herman Cain, but he is NOT ready for POTUS, nor is he prepared to take on Obama! This is another example that he is not capable of the job!

  • Alaina

    He said economy… I want to know when Cain flipped on the economy.
    .
    Plus, I don’t think his statement about abortion was really a flip as much as an incoherent statement… his history shows that he is very much anti-abortion.

  • Troy La Mana

    While I am sure some people may say that Romney could fix the economy it comes down to believably. I just don’t believe he will do what he tells me he will do because it contradicts what he said the last time he was campaigning. Cain gets a pass because he isn’t a polished car salesman like most politicians. With them you know it’s just a con job to get elected.

    • Rob

      Really? Cain’s flip flopped a number of times on the most basic of questions during his campaign. Look at his past comments on the economy from the last 5 years. The guy doesn’t have a clue.

      • Alaina

        Examples?

        • Brian H

          Abortion
          Negotiating with terrorists
          China and nuke technology
          999 vs 909
          .

    • Brian H

      Troy. How many “passes” will you afford Cain before you become concerned with his performance, skill- set, and knowledge?
      .
      To give him a “pass” week after week, gaff after gaff means that he can never be held accountable for his actions. The man is a candidate for President of the United States, the highest political office in the world, not applying to be a used car salesman. There are no “passes” afforded to anyone. Mitt doesn’t get one on “Romneycare” or his accused flip flops, Newt doesn’t get one for his personal life, Perry doesn’t get any for his “Oops” moments, Paul doesn’t get any for his foreign policy positions.
      .
      The whole “I am not a politician” excuse has worn thin. By that standard anyone can run who is not a politician and simply use that as an excuse to get a pass on their numerous oops moments. When he signed up to run for President he became a “politician”. A politician he is, a good one he is not.

  • Brian H

    Every party has to deal with self inflicted wounds during a primary season and as soon as the primary is over all is forgotten. This happens every cycle with every party. How we forget the “bloodbath” that was Hillary vs. Obama. Remember the “3am phone call”, or Obama flicking Hillary off his shoulder?
    .
    What we are seeing is part of the process, and as such, it exposes those like Cain or Perry who would be disastrous in a general election. The process works well. I am glad to learn now just how bad Cain is a candidate. I would hate to learn of Cain’s amateurish campaign and ability to answer questions during the general election.

  • Brian H

    I seriously do not know what Cain has ever done that would suggest that only “he” can do anything to fix the economy. When he ran Godfathers it was ranked #8 among all the other Pizza chains. So, according to my below average math skills, there are at least 7 other Pizza moguls who are more qualified to fix the economy than Cain.
    .
    I would understand it if he were truly some grand man of business, but, running a government and running a pizza chain are two very different things.
    .
    As Rob said, Cain cannot answer no-brainer questions in an articulate response…to anything, and it is repeated. As Jason said, the gaffs happen way too often and help formulate his narrative of not being ready for prime time, or even 3am infomercial time.
    .
    Even if you honestly assume Cain is the only person alive who can fix the economy none of that matters if he cannot get elected. There is NO CHANCE Herman Cain could get elected.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      7 other pizza moguls! That’s funny stuff, makes me wonder if the Little Cesears economic plan wouldn’t have been the 5-5-5.

    • Alaina

      Relax Brian… I never said I was going to vote for or against him.
      .
      Cain has taken two businesses from the verge of bankruptcy and turned them around in a very short period of time and made them profitable and competitive.
      .
      That is an incredibly unique skill set. Few people can do that once. Cain did it twice. It’s not just knowing how to sell pizzas or burgers. It’s the ability to look at a business, understand how it currently functions, determine how it should function and execute, which includes identifying and cutting waste, finding make processes more efficient, understanding what the customer wants and providing them with whatever that is and good service, not to mention the political skills that a high level executive has to have.
      .
      Then you have his time as the Chairman of the KC Fed. Whether you agree with the Fed or not, the fact of the matter is that you have to have an unbelievable grasp of finance, economics, capital markets and treasury. Just being exceptional doesn’t get you the job at the Fed.
      .
      His inability to coherently answer a foreign policy question has nothing to do with his ability to turn our economy around.
      .
      You may say Romney has the business experience to the same thing, but he has a very different skill set. Romney’s experience stems from management consulting (which is what I do) and mergers & acquisitions (which I consult on) and leveraged buyouts. It’s a great skill set, but very, very different from being able to turn around multiple companies and be knowledgable enough to be Chairman of a Fed Bank.
      .
      Whether you like him as a candidate or not, he has had a brilliant business career and is the only one with the skill set we need right now. I just hope that whoever is elected will give him a major economic-related position in their White House.

      • Brian H

        I will grant you the fact Cain has had business success. That is without question. What I will not grant you is the idea that his ability to operate fast food chains is the “only skill set we need right now”. It is quite obvious from Cain’s numerous gaffs that a few more skill sets may in fact be needed right now. The fact that you have wavered on Cain illustrates that you understand his ability to be CEO of struggling food establishments may in fact not be all we need right now, does it not?

        • Alaina

          I’m waivering in support right now because he has made enough mistakes outside of the economy that I question whether he will be able handle foreign policy at all. I don’t expect him to be perfectly fluent, but his response to some questions has concerned me in that I don’t necessarily care if he has the most experience, but I do care if he knows what is going on and has a coherent opinion.
          .
          His skill set has nothing to do with working for fast food businesses… He can take that skill set and apply it to any industry or business. As a management consultant, I focus on the Asset Management industry, but I can certainly take my experience and skill set and apply it elsewhere.
          .
          As a teacher, I think it’s tough for you to really appreciate what it takes to run a corporation and how hard it is to make changes within a business (particularly a large one) because you don’t have that experience. I mean no disrespect by saying that… I doubt I appreciate how hard it is to be a teacher… I’m pretty sure I might kill some of the kids and their parents based on stories that I’ve heard from friends who are teachers.
          .
          Maybe I have more of an appreciation for it because my job is to fix the screw ups of major Wall Street banks, some of which are run so poorly that I refuse to put my money in those companies, whether that is my checking, savings, 401k, investment accounts, etc. I know how hard it is to make a company function and I have great admiration for people who can go into an organization, particularly one that is failing, make major changes and make it successful in a short period of time.
          .
          His 9-9-9 plan is a great example. Whether you’re sick of hearing it or not, it’s an absolutely brilliant plan and would make our economy boom again.
          .
          At the end of the day, the reality is that he’s not a good politician, but (for our economy and debt) he has the exact skill set we need. I understand that he has to get elected to implement his policy ideas and I am under no illusions about him being the nominee at this point. Like I said before, I have no idea what I’m going to do when the primary rolls around for us… however, the decision will likely be made by that point so it won’t matter anyway.

  • Brian H

    I agree with you about Rob. He has made many valid points recently and is truely assessing the race based on logic and reason and not emotion.

  • http://www.politicalderby.com/ Jason Wright, Editor

    You guys are veering off-topic. Take it to Open Thread.
    .
    One more note about Cain. I completely understand the idea that we’re in this “gotcha” media world with cameras running on these horses 24/7. I get it. You can get caught in a bad moment getting off your campaign bus at 3:00 AM.
    .
    This, however, was a softball question about a topic my 15 year old knows about in a controlled setting at the newspaper. This wasn’t a “who is the vice president of toilet bowl cleaning at the embassy in Uganda” question.
    .
    The concern isn’t this one moment, just like Perry’s “oops” at the debate. It’s about trends and red flags. Cain has more of these awkward moments than GOP voters should be willing to allow. And Perry and Bachmann are not far behind.

  • Red State Eddie

    You just keep telling yourself that until you see burquas in the streets and women not allowed to drive, work, or be in public.

    • Chris

      Here was the scenario earlier this year. Pro-Gaddafi troops, many of them foreign merchanries, were about to strike Benghazi, the seat of the NTC and the heart of the opposition. The world had two options:

      1. Do nothing and permit them to be wiped out
      2. Intervene and prevent a massacre

      If you choose option 2, you have to go all the way to regime change as the moment you left it would all start again. Remember this is a regime that had supported terrorist strikes against the US and the UK.

      In deciding whether or not to take option 2, do you wait and ask whether there is a chance that the opposition might one day impose Sharia law and if you think there is, do you walk away knowing that the women you mentioned wont get a chance to drive as they would barely have a chance to survive?

      It is possible that an Islamist regime will win the election, but it is just one of many possible scenarios to come out of the fall of Gaddafi and not the most likely to happen. There are plenty of Islamic regimes in the world that are not extremists and there are plenty of Muslim states with secular governments

      • Rob

        Sounds like someone eats up every bit of propaganda he hears on TV… lol.

        • Chris

          I’m always happy to hear other informed points of view

          • Rob

            How many civilians have the forces of democracy killed in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan? That should be a good starting point for our wonderful goals.

            • Chris

              I totally agree with you, it has to be the first consideration. That is a much more pertinent question than the possible religious or political beliefs of those who need help

              Its impossible to say how many civilians were killed in these conflicts, as it was impossible to predict how many would be killed at the outset. It makes it impossible then to answer this question: how many have civilians have to die before it becomes wrong to go in? Or how many would die if you don’t go in?

              For the record, I think that the interventions in Libya and Afganistan were correct and I wish we had gone into Rwanda. I think that Iraq was wrong on so many levels

  • Red State Eddie

    This is what I said in a previous post: anythng outside of fiscal and economic issues, the guy is toast.

  • Gary Russell

    I wouldn’t call myself a “Cainiac”, or even a Cain supporter at this time. I agree with most of his positions, and I think that he could do a very good job as President, but I also realize that he has enough weaknesses as a candidate that he would be very difficult to elect.
    .
    This is just the next clip in what is becoming the media’s latest gimmick – expose the candidates to 24/7 questioning, film it all, wait for the inevitable screwup, and go viral with it. It will continue to happen to EVERY candidate (at least every conservative candidate) who allows the media to dictate their schedule.
    .
    Mitt and Newt have been around the block enough that they aren’t letting the media play this game.
    .
    Mitt avoids it by playing “prevent defense”.
    He limits his media exposure. Is it working for him? Not really. It keeps him in the game by avoiding embarrassing mistakes.
    But, as others have pointed out, the prevent defense usually just prevents victory.
    .
    Newt, as Joyce points out, simply doesn’t allow it. Plus, he never seems to be mentally exhausted. Maybe his long vacation this summer wasn’t such a bad idea?
    .
    So, without “crying bias” or “spinning” the Cain clip (leading the witness, Counselor Wright?), I will simply say that the clip looks bad, and will hurt Cain’s campaign at a time when he can’t afford it.
    Cain isn’t ready for a prime-time campaign.
    That doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable of being a successful President,but it does mean that he isn’t skilled enough at defeating the main-stream media at their games. Therefore, he can’t be our nominee.
    .
    And, it makes Newt’s political skills (along with his deep knowledge of the issues and mad debating skills) a little more appealing every day.

    • Chris

      Gary, I am a liberal and am hoping for the President to be re-elected. I have little time for either Congresswoman Bachmann or former Senator Santorum, but I was pleased that they both knew what they were talking about in the latest debate when talking about Pakistan, even if I didnt necessarily agree with them

      I don’t want to see any of former Governor Romney, former Speaker Gingrich or former Ambassador Huntsman in the White House, but at least they have the experience and intellectual rigour required of the job.

      It isn’t a media conspiracy, its not an attempt to trip someone up. It isn’t even a case of the candidate getting himself muddled up (like Governor Perry did who I have sympathy for, everyone has brain freezes from time to time). When asked about the most recent military intervention by the US when US troops were asked to risk their lives, Mr Cain didn’t even know which side they were on

      And some of you want to give him the codes to the nuclear arsenal? Its not prime time or the media he isn’t ready for, its becoming the “Leader of the Free World” he isn’t ready for

      Seriously, I get you like his domestic conservative credentials, but are you telling me that you can’t find a single conservative who has the intellect and ability to satisfy your conservative desires and we a leader on the world stage?

      • Gary Russell

        Chris, I’m afraid you’re a little naive when it comes to the motives of most of our media here in the states. It is a badge of honor for most journalists to be the one who trips someone up. Should that be the goal of journalism?
        .
        If you sympathize with Perry and his brain freeze over one of the main points of his policy, why would you not equally sympathize with Cain? If any of us were asked daily about a broad variety of domestic, foreign, and personal topics, it would be inevitable that we would eventually have a similar moment. I have those moments on a daily basis, and nobody is recording me in the hopes that I’ll screw up. You must be a young guy.

        • Gary Russell

          And again, to clarify my position, I’m not defending cain as a candidate. As I said before…
          “Cain isn’t ready for a prime-time campaign.
          That doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable of being a successful President,but it does mean that he isn’t skilled enough at defeating the main-stream media at their games. Therefore, he can’t be our nominee.”

          • Chris

            I hear you, I don’t think he is capable of defending himself in the media, but I also don’t think he is capable of defending the US and its allies on the world stage. THAT is why in my opinion he would not make a successful president

        • Chris

          I know how the media works and I know when people get muddled. I also know the difference between people who know what they are talking about but stumble over the words and those who don’t have a clue what they are talking about and try to blag their way out of it. This is the later

        • Steve M.

          Gary, the reason I think this means much more than “Cain is ready for a prime-time campaign,” and the reason this (and several of Cain’s other gaffes) are worse than Perry’s momentary lapse is taht it really truly seems that Cain doesn’t know and doesn’t get it at these moments. When Cain looks down and thinks for a full 10 seconds — I don’t get the feeling he is thinking, “Let me remember” … I get the feeling he’s thinking, “Oh, no … I have no idea, how to I give an answer that hides the fact that I don’t know.”

  • dw

    What do you want to hear, Jason? Is there really anything we could say to change your mind about Cain?

    • Rob

      Not sure it has anything to do with changing his mind. It’s more about defending how you can support a guy that literally can’t articulate a position coherently on anything.

      The only position he can clearly state is:
      “that’s why i presented a bold plan called 9-9-9 blah blah blah”

      Everything else is pathetic (and the 9-9-9 crap makes me want to stab myself in the face at this point)

      • dw

        I would argue that it is impossible to defend a candidate to closed minds. Just look at the response Ron Paul supporters get when they actually try to defend some of Ron Paul’s good positions.
        .
        So, rather than bash candidates, as many PD regulars seem to think is important, why not spend more time just sharing the strengths of your candidate. Try doing that on specific issues, with specific answers, with no reference or comparison at all to any other candidate. Perhaps the open thread could be changed to issue of the day. Contributors could post the position of their candidate, and we can read and make up our own minds.
        .
        Seriously – if you really want a GOP candidate to win, do you not see how much damage is inflicted by the candidates and their supporters attacking each other? The DNC has got to love it. They don’t need to do anything to make the GOP look bad – the GOP does it to themselves.

        • Rob

          I want Ron Paul to win, though. No other GOP candidate is close enough to my political ideology to vote for.

          Cain is a disaster. I don’t like Romney, but the guys a great politician. Cain can’t handle anything without screwing up.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/scottslant Scott A. Robinson, Editor

            Rob,

            Lately you’ve made a lot of sense. We appreciate that and I completely agree with your comment.

      • Brian H

        “999”

    • http://www.politicalderby.com/ Jason Wright, Editor

      There are people asking you the same question, dw. Is there anything that would convince you he’s not ready for the gig? That he’s not up to it?
      .
      As a reminder, my job here isn’t to advocate for one candidate over another. I just call the shots using my gut instincts and a lot of years in politics.
      .
      I don’t have a horse in this race. I’ll vote when the time comes, and it won’t be for Obama, but my role isn’t to derail Cain. It’s to call it like I see it.
      .
      Cain is a train wreck. I get why many of you are attracted to him, I do. I know there isn’t an ideal horse running. But the fact that you’re behind Cain says a lot. In any other cycle, Cain wouldn’t be polling above Huntsman.
      .
      Cain can’t win the nomination. But if he did, he would be slaughtered by Obama.

      • dw

        My question to you was rhetorical, Jason. I really did not expect to be able to say anything to change your opinion about Cain.
        .
        And, I’m not asking anyone to convince me to change my mind. I read through posts and also research on my own to determine for whom I will vote.

  • Stephen

    Herman Cain essentially said that the only thing he would change is the initial assessment of the situation but also acknowledged that he didn’t know what he would change about that because he wasn’t there to see how it was assessed. In other words, he has no disagreement with the way Libya was handled by the Obama administration but he doesn’t want it to look like he’s on Obama’s side on the issue.

  • Joyce A (East of Eden)

    Yes there was bias by the reporters. They clearly wanted Cain to answer the question in a certian way, which he did not, so the question gets asked repteated times. However, you see this with all of the GOP candidates to an extent — the only one who really does not allow it is Newt, he actually calls them out, like he did in Sat nite’s debate with Scott Pelly. I think it slaps you in the face in this clip is because Cain is not a smooth and polished in his answers as some of the other candidates. I do agree with him though, Pres Obama should have vetted the Lybian opposition more. They were not freedom fighters as many of us suspected and now know, but fundamentalists bent on intalling Sharia Law. So much for freedom, eh?

    • Chris

      “fundamentalists bent on installing Sharia law”

      Please could you explain where you got that from?

      The NTC is a coalition of forces and groups opposing Gaddafi’s regime. As with any coalition there will be a wide range of opinions and agendas and the Islamists will certainly be involved. However, it would be wrong to say that it is controlled by the Islamists or that their influence is strong. It was, in fact, mainly Gaddafi propaganda that claimed otherwise, please tell me that you didn’t buy it?

      The NTC isn’t perfect and has a next to impossible job in its mission to transform its country into a working democracy, but I would think that they have a fighting chance of success, much better than those attempting to do so in Egypt, Iraq or Afganistan

      Add this to the fact that there was not one NATO casualty due to the war, then you could argue that it was a successful intervention. It wasn’t perfect, nothing ever is, but I think history will be kind to it

      You may disagree, and that is fine, but when commenting you need to know what you are talking about, otherwise it is just empty rhetoric. Cain, clearly from this video, has no idea what has just happened in Libya, which is quite frankly scary of a front runner for one of the most important jobs in the world.

      • Joyce A (East of Eden)

        In a presser about 2-3 weeks ago, the new leader of Libya said, the basis of their law would be Sharia Law.

        See this story: http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/26/world/africa/libya-sharia/index.html

        If you’ve studied the 1979 Iranian Revolution there were also “proclaimed” moderates who wanted a law based on the moral teachings of Islam but not a theocracy. The vacuum of power and the disorganization of the various factions allowed the most extreme of those factions — The Ayatollas, to seize power. So far the Muslim state that Iran has created, based on Sharia law, terrorizes and subjugates women, homosexuals, Christians and anyone that the government deems a nusance. Saudi Arabia has laws also based on Sharia and women, homosexuals and Christians do not fare well there either. In my opinion Sharia Law is disaster for any nation, society etc that implements it.

        Sadly I see Libya going the same way as Iran, if a powerhouse like the US, or another European nation does not step in. As much as I did not like Kadaffi, I hate the thought of the US being in another Middle-Eastern country even more.

  • Troy La Mana

    I’d like to see the next ten seconds to see if it was edited to make it look like spin.

    • Rob

      Can we get a real opinion from you Troy? You’ve gotta think this is pretty terrible right? Stop spinning and be real for once.

    • http://www.politicalderby.com/ Jason Wright, Editor

      The next ten seconds of a 5 minute, 16 second video? What are you expecting to see? “Psyche! Got ya! Here’s my real answer.”

  • Chris

    And you wonder why the rest of the world get worried at election time?

  • Alaina

    I truly believe that Cain is the only one in the race that can fix our economy, fix our debt and fix our government. I’ve given him a lot of leeway on a lot of things because he is the guy who can fix us at home. However, these continued gaffes are really scaring me. Im beyond my comfort level with him.
    .
    So what do you do? Support the one guy that you believe can fix us at home and pray that he doesn’t do anything really stupid with our foreign policy? Or do you pick someone who isn’t going to fix anything, but may not completely screw it up either?
    .
    If the primary was today, I have no idea what I would do.

  • Brian H

    “stab myself in the face”…LOLOLOLOL. Now there is one I have never heard before.
    .
    That is too funny! That line from Rob was almost as classic as when he told me he hated my pathetic existance.
    .
    Rob is a funny dude when wants to be.