Today’s open thread

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Filed Under Open Thread on Oct 28 

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  • Brian H

    No issues are off the table in politics, you know that. Mitt has claimed, just like all the others, that he will repeal Obama-Care on day one. Do we believe that will not be an issue in the campaign?
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    National campaigns end up being about competence and the future. I believe this election will be even more so due to the current economic realities. This election will be about America today, not Mass. 10 years ago. It will be a referendum on Obama, not Romney. The only way the GOP loses this election is to elect someone that lacks the intellect or political maturity to counter the attack they will receive from Team-Obama and his supporters in the press. Someone who can’t be Palinized in the media.
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    As I have said, Mitt was not my first choice. There were many others for whom I wished had entered the race. They did not do so.

  • Brian H

    Since Rusty is willing to take one for team-Perry, I will take one for team-Mitt.
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    On what issue(s) is Mitt Romney not “conservative”? Not what you think he was five years ago, or 20 years ago.

    • Troy La Mana

      Mittens is very conservative on many issues during this election cycle. Then again he didn’t hold these positions when he ran last time. This is the reason why he can’t be trusted. Which Mitt would you have in the White House if he was elected? THAT is the question that haunts my soul.

      • Brian H

        On what issue is he different this election than he was last time?

    • Alaina Segovia

      That’s the issue… You had to narrow your timeframe down to 5 years… I hate to agree with Perry on anything, but he’s right to say that it’s ridiculous for someone in politics to change their views on so many issues at such a late stage in life.
      .
      Sure, I can ignore his past and believe everything that he says, but how is different than the Obama zombies in 2008? We all talked about how ridiculous it was that people would believe anything he said because it was contrary to his political and personal history. You tell me… What’s the difference between the two situations?

      • Brian H

        My point was to point out that Troy’s statement that Mitt didn’t hold these positions “last time” is factually inaccurate. In fact, Mitt’s positions haven’t changed much since the last election.
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        Over the decades he has reversed himself on prior issues. What I like is that his flip flops have tended to flip and flop in a more conservative direction. I find it ironic that the same people who attack Mitt for being a flip-flopper and a political chameleon are also the same people who attack him for not flipping and flopping on Romney-Care. They are the same people who often demand him to publicly flip-flop on that issue.
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        I am not getting your comparison of Romney to Obama and his “zombies”. The cult of personality that was/is Obama can hardly be compared to the lackluster support that Romney gets from, as is so gleefully often pointed out, the “70%” of Republicans.
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        It is quite clear that there is absolutely nothing Romney can do to ever gain support from some self proclaimed “conservatives”. It doesn’t matter if he moves his positions to more align with theirs. iI doesn’t matter if he runs a well disciplined organized campaign. It doesn’t matter if he wins every debate and comes off as the most articulate and competent. It doesn’t matter that he makes few unforced errors. It doesn’t matter that he has executive and private sector experience. It doesn’t matter that he appears to be a great father, husband, and family man. Nope. None of that matters.
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        In the end, the anybody but Romney vote may well keep Mitt from atop the ticket. I just can’t imagine running against Obama in a general election with any other horse in the field.
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        I wish T-Paw had done better. I wish Mitch Daniels would have run. I wish Christi would have run. I wish Ryan would have run. I wish Pence would have run. I wish Jindal would have run. Unfortunately, they did not. Mitt did. At least he put himself out there on the track, whereas others who were qualified have not. At least he continues to try to garner votes from people who are dead-set against him.

        • Alaina

          RomneyCare was in no way the Conservative thing to do, but what’s done is done. Saying that you made a mistake in implementing a policy is much different than completely changing your philosophy.
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          I could respect him if he said something to the effect of, “Hindsight being 20/20, it was a bad policy. I shouldn’t have signed it into law.” That, to me (and apparently a lot of other people) is much different than changing positions on abortion in your late 50’s or early 60’s when you have to win an election that requires more Conservative positions.
          .
          How does he have any credibility when he says he’s against ObamaCare when he won’t admit that RomneyCare was bad for the state of Massachusetts? Health care costs have skyrocketed in Mass, but he won’t even admit that.
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          I wasn’t talking about the 70% of Republicans. I was talking about the 20%+ that say, “It’s okay that his record doesn’t match his rhetoric. We’re going to blindly follow him because right now he says he believes in a Conservative platform.” Is that not what people did with Obama in 2008? They blindly followed him and believed everything he said because it sounded good and that’s what they wanted to hear… despite his history.

          • Brian H

            He does not believe Romney-Care was bad. Why should he admit to something he does not believe to be true?
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            Why should I in Texas determine that a health care policy in Mass. is bad? I do not live in Mass. and have no idea of whether it is bad or good. According to Romney, maybe he is lying, the health care plan he passed continues to be extremely popular in Mass. I really don’t know, or care, since it matters not to me at all in Texas.
            .
            As a “conservative” we should appreciate the idea that states are in control of state issues and not under the strong arm of the federal government. What Mass. did, good or bad, is exactly what “conservatives” claim they want, policy made at the local level by states and not an intrusive federal government.
            .
            I give all these candidates a pass on most issues they faced at the state level. Whether it be Perry/Immigration or Mitt/Health Care. Governors in states face certain challenges in their respected states that require state policies to meet those challenges. A true “conservative” respects the sovereignty of states to shape policy for their states and understands that what we are looking for with a conservative candidate is someone who will not push national mandates. Conservativism is not simply about holding the “right” philosophy, it is about governing as a “conservative” by understanding the Constitutional limits that have been placed on the Federal government. Perhaps I am wrong, but, I have not heard anything from Mitt, or the other candidates, that makes me think they do not understand the role of the federal government.
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            My concern with the other candidates is not based on a belief that they are not “conservative” enough, they all are. That whole argument is a canard that candidates use to claim more purity than the others. They are all conservatives and they would all govern from the center-right.
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            My concern is with the others is in their skillets and resumes that they need to actually win the job. Their ability to articulate and organize an effective campaign against Obama. Except for Ron Paul and foreign policy, these candidates are almost all ideological clones. The question at this point is not their purity, it is their strength as a potential general election candidate. What we have seen over the last few months are cracks in the armor for some candidates as it pertains to their general election strength. In that, the process is working out nicely.

        • Alaina

          You say you can’t imagine anyone else running against Obama, but that’s exactly what I would want if I were Obama. It takes ObamaCare completely off the table, which should give Republican a lot of leverage in 2012. It takes taxes off the table because Romney raised taxes in Mass and his tax policy has few differences from our current tax policy under Obama. Foreign policy is off the table because Romney has none.
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          So what’s left? The economy? Nope. Massachusett’s economy didn’t rank well against most of the rest of the country. It wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t good either so Romney doesn’t have a great record to tout on that.
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          All his has is a pretty face, a nice voice and a big bank account. Guess what… so does Obama.

          • Rochelle

            It doesn’t take Obama care off the table. It brings it center front as a states-rights or Federal issue. Conservatives taking the position of States rights and Liberals of Federal rights. Like it or not, Romney-care actually does follow conservative tenets. (Before the liberal legislature and new Governor changed it, of course.) It was a State solution, utilized the private sector, rather than a single pay system, following the MA constitutional guidelines. I love Texas’ law that allows people to defend themselves and their property with firearms. In some states you better hope if you shoot the robber in the window, he falls into the house, or you will be prosecuted. States handle gun laws, tax laws, marriage laws, and business laws different. Romney has said that he does not agree with Obama care. He has said that he doesn’t feel it is a federal solution. Even with Perry cutting out half the sentence for his ads, anyone can look up, that Romney said that in 2008 also. He said it was a good solution for his state, and sure any other state could look at it and see what worked and if it would work for them. He also said there were things he would have changed and if Obama had called him, he would have told him what worked and what didn’t. This is a non-issue.

            As far as changing positions. On abortion, he did that long before he decided to run for President. Look it up.
            http://www.lifenews.com/2011/08/05/romney-picks-pro-life-conservatives-as-top-judicial-advisors/
            http://aboutmittromney.com/abortion.htm
            http://www.issues2000.org/Mitt_Romney.htm

            Reagan changed his Pro-Choice stance also. Romney actually backed his up with better legislation.

            Gay Marriage — This is a strange issue for anyone to deal with, but especially Romney’s generation. I think as he has seen the unintended consequences of legislation in MA re: gay issues, he has become increasingly more conservative on the issue.

            These are the ONLY flip flop issues that are consistently brought up. That isn’t flip flopping. That is changing your mind. It’s an unfair label.

            When I really started looking at his record, I was impressed with him as a Governor. When I read how he acted when an employee was in trouble, ROBERT GAY: “My fourteen year-old daughter had disappeared in New York City for three days. No one could find her.

            “My business partner stepped forward to take charge. He closed the company and brought almost all our employees to New York.

            “He said, ‘I don’t care how long it takes – we’re going to find her.’

            I think that most people would have given the father the day off and moved on with business. Romney didn’t. Romney went and searched. Here is the rest of the story. http://myclob.pbworks.com/w/page/21959339/Robert%20Gay

            The more I see about Mitt Romney, the more I like him. I am almost in the Romney camp.

            “He set up a command center and searched through the night. The man who helped save my daughter was Mitt Romney.

            “Mitt has done a lot of things that people say are nearly impossible. But for me, the most important thing he’s ever done is help save my daughter.”

            • Rochelle

              Obviously, I accidentally inserted my paragraph into the quote. Sorry, dumb fat fingers.

            • Brian H

              Thank you for sharing that post.
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              The silly “RINO” charge is a way of saying “I am more conservative than you are”. It is the political equivalent of the old school-yard “my dad can beat up your dad” argument.
              ..
              The truth is all of these candidates are very conservative and almost identical on most of the issues.

  • Rusty Shackleford

    Ok everyone, I’ve decided to become the PD punching bag. Since no one on PD is supporting Gov. Perry, from this point on, I am.

    Has he been the best governor ever? No.
    Has he actually created any of the jobs that he boasts about? No.
    Can he score points in a debate? Not against Newt.

    But, he is definitely not “big government”, and he IS smart enough to keep the government involvement in the private sector to a minimum. He has more executive experience than any of the other candidates and he is “conservative” as now defined “especially if Mitt qualifies”.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      He can debate President Obama on track record, and in a one-on-one debate he can score aginst Obama. I understand that Romney is safe, but he isn’t a true conservative and that is why 70% of Republicans haven’t latched on to him yet.

      Go ahead and tear down my points, but just like the frothing Paul supporters, I won’t let your “facts” sway my position.

      • Brian H

        You’re a good man, Rusty. I do not agree with anything you said, but, a good man you are.

      • Dodgers

        Obama will eat Perry alive in the debates. Perry simply does not have the intellectual firepower to compete toe to toe. It’s noble of you to stand with him, but you’re settling just as much with Perry as the Romney people are with him. You say 70% still haven’t come around to Romney, but that percentage is even higher for Perry.

      • Alaina Segovia

        You forgot to mention that he manages a budget just about as well as Obama…

        • Alaina Segovia

          Oh, and is just as ethical and humble too…

    • Promise Kept

      Here is the latest Rolling Stone article on your man, Rusty. As you might expect, it’s more than a little brutal, but I’m sure you can take it.

      http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rick-perry-the-best-little-whore-in-texas-20111026

  • Brian H

    In a previos post GO mentioned the electoral college. I am posting a response to his assumptions about the electoral college.
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    GO. “let’s bring up again the topic of the voting system”.
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    GO. The system for which you advocate would not exist if we eliminated the winner-take-all system that exists with the electoral college. You stated that the winner take all makes the smaller states irrelevant. Actually, it does just the opposite. You mentioned the 10-15 “battleground” states. Under a popular vote system there would not be 10 to 15 states that matter. There would be much much less. What would happen in that the politicians would simply compete in the 10-15 largest cities, they would never leave the coasts. The “flyover” states would get no play whatsoever. The reason the electoral college will NEVER be changed is because it would take a constitutional amendment in which 3/4 of all states would have to agree to change it. This will never happen because the smaller states will never vote for such a system, they are the ones that would lose all political influence. The smaller states love the electoral college exactly for the reasons you advocate, it gives them influence and a voice in the process. A popular vote system would destroy that.

    Another great advantage of the electoral college is that it is a 50 state election and any chance of competing is to have a state by state organization. The fringer parties do not clog up the election. We do not have Presidential campaigns with 20 parties running. It is what has helped the USA maintain smooth transitions of power.

  • Dodgers

    That other Cain ad isn’t new. Look at when it was posted.

  • Steve M.

    and he stuck with the creepy smile shot at the end.

  • Steve M.

    It looks like Cain has done it again …
    He Carried Yellow Flowers
    This isn’t much better than the Mark Block Ad…

    • Rob

      wth did i just watch?

    • Troy La Mana

      That was months ago.. keep up

  • QPC

    Based on comments from another string, I am curious what people think makes a credible news source these days? “News” as we knew it 20-30 years ago has completely changed. Who has the right or the ability to correctly report the “news”? Is the concept of journalistic neutrality real or do people have inherent biases?

    • Stephen

      The news media is not paid to report accurate news. They are paid to sell advertising slots. To sell advertising slots (and sell them for more) they have to keep you watching. Therefore, the news media’s primary objective is to keep as many people watching as they can; it is NOT to report news accurately (though they claim this is the case). There is no such thing as an unbiased news agency.

      If you’re a republican, watch Fox. You’ll like what you see. If you’re a democrat, watch MSNBC. Again, you’ll like what you see. If you want unbiased news reporting, you’re out of luck.

      • http://scottslant.blogspot.com/ Scott A. Robinson

        This is true. I wish the news media would just admit where they stand. This is how it used to be. The legacy can be seen by many of the newspaper names still in existence (Democrat, Republican, etc.)