I watched the debate and a debate broke out
Posted on November 29th, 2007 at 2:45 pm by Contributor ArchiveI wouldn’t dream of ludicrously and arrogantly taking any measure of credit for CNN/YouTube’s debate moderator being anyone other than Wolf Blitzer, but Anderson Cooper certainly did a fine job. Generally, he made sure that candidates answered the questions - something he said was owed to all the people who sent so much time asking questions - and added a colloquial charm. He prefaced Mitt Romney’s answer to a question about farm subsidies with a warning, that “a lot of folks in Iowa [are] interested in this answer.” Cooper most amusing moment came after Fred Thompson’s ad was shown, which, rather than highlight Thomson, simply attacked Romney and Mike Huckabee. Cooper’s informal, “Senator Thompson, what’s up with that?” drew a good bit of laughter. Overall, the event, unlike some of its torturous predecessors, was fun to watch, and actually lived up to its “debate” status, as candidates spent time arguing back and forth on a number of points. Now that that’s out of the way, on to the candidates…
Mike Huckabee, thanks to his recent rise in Iowa polls, enjoyed more face time than he had in previous debates. With, he claimed, people more worried about an audit than a mugging, Huck called for an end to the IRS, proposing to replace it with the so-called “fair tax”, a federal retail sales tax. He slickly tried to explain his way out of in-state tuition for illegals, but no amount of sugar coating was going to keep Mitt Romney from blasting Huck for having fought for the “right to give scholarships to illegals.” When asked, “What would Jesus do?” about the death penalty, Huck eloquently explained the difficult decisions he had to make before finally suggesting that Jesus was too smart to run for public office. Huck somehow equated being gay as bad conduct in the military, a suggestion which reeked of intolerance. Finally, Huck seemed ok with government spending on a human mission to Mars, provided Hillary Clinton was on the first rocket.
Ron Paul again won the all the CNN exit polls for best performance, most knowledgeable, etc., but despite his recent upswing in the early primary states, he was given his usual, i.e. minimal, face time. Asked if he believed in a conspiracy theory of a North American government, he simply stated that with trade agreements such as NAFTA, eminent domain claiming huge amounts of property for an international roadway conspiracy, and having witnessed the European Union come into existence, that a threat does exist to our national sovereignty, and that he opposes any move toward more international government bureaucracies. After John McCain said that the Republicans came to change government, and the government changed them, Paul stated unequivocally that Washington had not changed him, and that he had never once voted for a tax increase. He argued that lowering taxes is only half the solution, with the necessary complement being a reduction in spending. As for which government bureaucracies should be slashed, Paul cited the Departments of Education, Energy, and Homeland Security, which he called our biggest bureaucracy ever. He argued that out national defense would become stronger by changing our interventionist foreign policy, reiterating that we should bring the troops home. Paul argued that despite the moral question of occupying another country that we should be giving back to them, he stated that we can’t afford to keep up such wars, because as tax payer dollars are used to blow up and rebuild the same bridges in Iraq, our own bridges and infrastructure are crumbling. Finally, he likened Iraq to Vietnam, which is now a friend, a result, he says, achievable in peace that was never possible in 20 years of war.
John McCain spent time with troops over the holiday, and said that they had urged him to let them win in Iraq. He then challenged Ron Paul by claiming that isolationist policies had caused World War II. Paul pounced, citing the difference between isolationism and his policy of non-intervention, and proved the popularity of his position by pointing out that he had received the more campaign contributions from active duty personnel than any other candidate. Oddly, when asked how he would repair America’s image in the eyes of the Muslim world, McCain said he would continue the surge of troops, which he insisted was working. McCain received a groan of disbelief from the audience when he said that they in the government had never proposed amnesty for illegals, arguing instead that voters didn’t trust them after failures in Katrina and Iraq and the inability to reign in spending. He said, as president, he would veto every pork barrel spending bill that crossed his desk and would make the authors famous. He later hit the replay button, and said the exact same thing. McCain argued against Huckabee’s fair tax plan, which he claimed would tax some people up to 30%, and then bested Romney in a challenge over his wishy washy waterboarding stance. McCain insisted that we, as a nation, take the high road, and never allow torture to be used.
Surprisingly, Fred Thompson decided to make a public appearance, and was at the debate. He casually chatted about issues and candidates, hoping to pass by on the strength of his famous charm. He mentioned that, “surprisingly,” Romney had switched his position on amnesty for illegals. Thompson suggested that sometimes a decision to hire someone can, in retrospect, be a bad idea, a veiled reference Rudy Giuliani hiring to Bernard Kerik, though Thompson could have been referring to his own apparent decision of employing Richard Nixon’s makeup artist for the debate. In a weird moment, when asked which programs he would cut, he instead talked about saving Social Security and creating private Medicare accounts which would be matched by the government. Each candidate was allowed a 30-second ad spot, and Thompson’s was an attack on Romney and Huckabee. When questioned, he innocently stated that he just wanted to give his buddies on stage some more air time. Fred questioned Giuliani on his past support of gun control in New York City, but then lost the argument by going too far in comparing crime-ridden, no-guns-allowed Washington DC to New York, where guns are allowed and where crime decreased substantially under Rudy. Thompson didn’t win any extra friends in Hollywood when he stated that the number one focus should be to overturn Roe v Wade. Probably Fred’s best moment was when a question was asked by an animated caricature of Dick Cheney. Fred said he breathed a sigh of relief when he realized that it was Cheney and not him.
Mitt Romney seemed to spend all his time picking fights or responding to attacks. He started the debate by jumping on Giuliani for running an amnesty city, but then had to defend himself against accusations that he had personally employed illegal workers in his mansion. Mitt smacked Huck into reality by claiming that the money the Huck used for scholarships and tuition was, as tax payer money, not his to use on illegals. Romney said, as governor, he found a way to have universal health care without increasing government, which was contradictory, but in this debate he wised up, mentioning it once and then leaving it alone. Romney said he supported farm subsidies, because they were doing it in Brazil and Europe, which seemed to leave him open for attack until Rudy agreed with him. Romney’s odd solution to reduce black-on-black crime was to “get more moms and dads” and, perhaps more usefully, to ensure proper education and to increase state police. Mitt then went on about how he had increased state police, though some crimes increased while others decreased, and then threw in something about tripling a DNA facility. He said he believed every word of the Bible, as it is the “word of God”. When attacked on his abortion flip-flop, he stated that he was wrong and had made a mistake, which might have been more convincing if he hadn’t changed positions on so many other issues as well, leading viewers to wonder on which other issues he will eventually realize he is wrong. He did finish strongly, saying that there was nothing sweeter than when his Red Sox beat the Yankees after being down 3-0 in a best of 7 series.
Rudy Giuliani directly debated Romney and Thompson, usually coming out on top. He cited his record of significant crime reduction in New York City, which was unlike Romney’s “mixed record” on crime. He corrected Thompson on his gun control views, stating that he favored restrictions on gun ownership for criminals and the mentally challenged. Rudy also cited his fiscally conservative record as mayor, and suggested that government spending could easily be reduced by simply not replacing half the workers on the government payroll when they retire. Unlike Romney, Rudy said he would not sign a hypothetical federal ban on abortion (following a hypothetical overturn of Roe v Wade), claiming that it should be left up to the individual states. Rudy also differed from Mitt and Huck by saying he did not believe the Bible was entirely literal, but rather that it was interpretive and certainly contained allegories. Rudy said he would stay on the offensive against Muslim extremists, though that didn’t seem to answer the question of how he would improve the Muslim world’s image of the US. Asked why blacks should support him, Rudy argued for school vouchers, so parents would not be forced to send their kids to bad and unsafe schools. He also preached reducing welfare, which he did as mayor, to get more people jobs, and with that, hope and a future. Rudy chastised McCain, saying that the line item veto was unconstitutional, not according to the senator, but according to the Supreme Court. Rudy’s 30-second video clip was amusing, claiming that Rudy had battled crime, overspending and “King Kong”, and that Hillary Clinton had called him a “$%#!” He defended rooting for the Red Sox, a logical argument, as he is an American League fan, but, more important than that, he said, he counted 4 Yankee World Championships among his accomplishments as mayor.
Duncan Hunter stuck to his strategy of not arguing with anyone, and bringing up a few flag-waving points. “I built that fence!” he bellowed, which resulted in significant crime reduction in San Diego, and pledged, as president, to compete the already approved fence across the rest of Mexican border. Hunter stated that China is cheating on trade and using the surplus to arm itself, so he urged everyone to “buy American…this Christmas season”. He said he would never apologize for the US, as we had helped defend, feed and heal so many other countries. He finished poorly, suggesting that forcing conservative Christians to work with homosexuals in the military was wrong, apparently ignoring the moral problems inherent in such a segregationist ideal.
Tom Tancredo again took time to acknowledge that he doesn’t get much time to talk. He stated he had the highest rating from conservative and tax reform groups. He refused to accept the oft-stated theory in support of illegals, arguing that there is no such thing as a job an American won’t take. He called for a change in trade relations with China. An introduction to the debate, a song by a YouTuber, stated that Tancredo wants the border fence, so Tom didn’t have to bother mentioning it. Tancredo pounced on Huckabee after Huck had ok’ed a mission to Mars, stating that while so many people say they are conservative, they are more than willing to spend more money on new programs. He argued that there are some things we can not afford.
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Nice song at the beginning…lots of fun…and perhaps it was the normalness of the questions that led to a more interesting debate.
But if they are going to invite people to the debate, give them equal time. These kinds of dirty tactics have been going on since time began; however, that doesn’t mean we have to tolerate them. We have choices that no other people has ever…and with that power, we can force others to treat us better.
You don’t get what you deserve…you get what you negotiate.
America is better than these debates, but we will continue to get them until we decide to demand otherwise.
No matter what they tell you…they need us much more than we need them.
This review of the debate has got to be one of the goofiest and most biased I have ever seen. Were we watching the same debate?? It seems obvious to me that the reviewer is scared to death of the values represented by Mike Huckabee and wants to spin the debate away from his stellar performance consisting of insightful and honest answers. He is gaining with the public every time they see him because he tells the truth and is a man of character.
It is also obvious that he is a Ron(out in loonie-land) Paul supporter. That man had more goofy things to say than the rest of the candidates put together and he has absolutely NO CHANCE of being elected. He hardly deserves a mention except to say how he avoided answering whether or not he would run as in independant in the general election.
Get this guy outta here. Maybe he needs to be doing movie reviews or something, but not commenting on an issue as serious to the future of this country as presidential debates!
(bet this one gets moderated away, but I am making a copy of it to send to a few posters on here just in case it does)
I think the clear winner from this debate was Huckabee. Mitt showed again why you shouldn’t vote for the flip/flopper who refuses to answer questions. McCain is too close to the question on torture to see you don’t pull any option off the table esspecially when terrorists don’t have Geniva Convention rights. Rudy showed more people that he is a RINO that is running off of 9/11 and is about to impload on the Kerik question. Ron Paul actually made some inroads if you really listened to his positions on issues. Hunter made good points early but blew it on the gays in the military question (I think all the canidates that answered that question did but Mitt really screwed up by dodging his own answer)
In the aftermath I am leaning toward Huckabee/Thompson/Paul in that order.
Well aren’t you surprised, Bonehead61? We only “moderate away” posts that are hateful or bigoted. (and anything from my sister — long story)
Winners in order
1. Romney (dominated)
2. Thompson (his best yet)
3. Huckabee (funny, but no substance)
4. McCain (did well being Mr. Tough Guy)
Huck’s dead on with the FairTax. There is no reasonable equity of distribution under the current INCOME tax system. What’s more, the Tax Code has become a “tinkerer’s paradise” for 53% of the lobbyists who game it in Washington DC. It’s a lucrative business, and the U.S. TAXPAYER pays for ALL of it in higher prices (i.e., a hidden tax which is incomprehensible to the average working person).
Prices after FairTax passage would look similar to prices before FairTax - not “30% higher” as opponents contend - competition would see to it. So, the FairTax rate (figured as an income-tax-rate-non-comparative, sales tax) on new items would be 29.85% (on the new, reduced cost of items because business isn’t taxed under FairTax - thus lowering retail prices by 20% to 30%), or 23% of the “tax inclusive” price tag - this is the way INCOME TAX is figured (parts of the total dollar).
The effective tax rate percentages, that different income groups would pay under the FairTax, are calculated by crediting the monthly “prebate” (advance rebate of projected tax on necessities) against total monthly spending of citizen families (1 member and greater, Dept. of Commerce poverty-level data; a single person receiving ~$200/mo, a family of four, ~$500/mo, in addition to working earners receiving paychecks with no Federal deductions) Prof.’s Kotlikoff and Rapson (10/06) concluded,
Further, per Jokischa and Kotlikoff (circa 2006?) …
It’s well past time to scrap the tax code and pay for government the way that America’s working men and women are paid - when something is sold.
(Permission is granted to reproduce in whole or part. - Ian)
Rudy definitely had the best YouTube clip.
I love hate mail - thanks, Bonehead61!
I thought Thompson had the best ad believe it or not, I may not support what he was going for, but it was strategically the best ad.
For the record Boivie is a Paul supporter, but that’s ok. Jason, I have to hear more about the posts from your sister, sounds hillarious.
I have to agree with Bonehead on some points. The focus group who watched the debate was most impressed by Huckabee, and post-debate polls taken by both the Florida Chamber of Conference and Insider Advantage/Majority Opinion show Huck won by a large margin.
Segragationist? I resent your comparison between the hatred and racism that African-Americans experienced and Hunter’s suggestion that homosexuals shouldn’t serve in the milarary. One is a matter of color, the other is a matter of conduct.
I just thought I’d mention that Tancredo also came to Huck’s defense when Huck was getting some heat for his history with the death penalty.
I’m not near as upset as Bonehead was, but this did seem biased, and not just against Huckabee.
And Huck didn’t ok a mission to mars, watch the video or read the transcript…
Yes, Ethan is definitely biased!
Etan, you may want to check your facts here - Romney never “hired” illegal immigrants to perform landscaping or any other duties at his home…he contracted a landscaper who in turn hired illegal immigrants - BIG difference.
And if you still want to try and pin some blame or accusation that Romney is somehow a flip-flopper on illegal immigration because of that isolated incident - saying that he could have or should have done something about it…just how quickly do you think the ACLU would be on his case by asking any of those landscapers if they or the people they employ are legal to work in the U.S. or not? Go ahead - Ethan - and see how far you get by asking employers or employees how they stand with the laws…I bet your butt would be sued because it’s against the law to make such inquirees!
BTW - Ethan - odds are that you also (using your tactics) have hired illegal immigrants to work for you! When was the last time you ate at a McDonald’s, shopped at Walmart, purchased something at Home Depot? It’s known fact that illegal immigrants are employed - most of the time unknowingly - by some of these companies. You, therefore, and still using your analysis, are also emplying them!
Laslty - there’s a nice little flier that has surfaced from Romney’s 1994 campaign against Ted Kennedy…seems as though the ONLY issue that he has changed is his stance on abortion! In every other area, he was a staunch Conservative. But, you like to make mountains out of mole hills…and not just with Romney, but also it appears with every other candidate except Ron Paul.
Beautiful analysis, Ethan!
Some random thoughts.
Compared to the Bradley Gore debates which had eloquence and wit… Oh excuse me it is the XFL meets debates. We need more booing
I thought there were lots of good points
* Guliani explaining his record besides 9/11.
* Huckabee explaining his death penalty rationale
(although I disagree with it)
* Paul in his last answer
Chuck Norris as a walk in had a non-speaking role
John John, righteous indignation doesn’t work.
I am waiting for someone to slam Romney on his health care plan and his hidden taxes when he Governor.
Quote: “I love hate mail - thanks, Bonehead61!”
Not hate mail, Ethan. I don’t hate you or your guy Ron Paul. I just wish that your objective in posting analysis of the debate was to portray the truth of what really happened and not to further your Ron Paul agenda. It seems like, because Paul has no chance to win, many of his cronies will try to use any means necessary to further advance his campaign, and I don’t want casual observers to be unfairly swayed by your inaccurate analysis.
By the way, what is it about Huckabee that scares you so much?
I have to agree that a recap should be a recap without picking sides, and this guy definitely has a thing for Paul. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t pretend it’s not true.
Unlike the GOP debates, Ethan dares to give candidates equal time.
The article was more documenting what happened than inserting opinion…and yes, Paul, despite being shorted time, does generate that much debate notation.
Here’s what opinionated writing looks like:
After silencing Giuliani and Huckabee in past debates, it was McCain’s turn to be silenced by Paul as McCain dared to counter Paul’s anti-Iraq war stance. McCain said “blah, blah, blah, you should be afraid of Islamic fanatics”…Paul responded something like “If true, then why does the military donate to me more than anyone else on the stage?!”
Like Giuliani and Huckabee, McCain will not do that again. He’ll let the neo con media slander Paul instead of honestly debate issues.
And the Fairtax?! Hah! Why replace the unnecessary, unconstitutional, and freedom destroying income tax when it is unnecessary, unconstitutional, and freedom destroying?! Compromise much? Do some research people…and I mean, do research beyond neo con shows and books.
Republican voters say they wants real conservatism, real freedom, etc. But when the rubber hits the road, they want the US to be an imperialist country…and hides behind the ‘Islamic fanatics’ crap that the government (who has proven themselves as untrustworthy) delivers. Meanwhile, Paul, via decades of video, voting record, legislation, etc. has proven himself to be trustworthy.
Really? Who do you trust?
BTW: I have earned a nice enough income that I can pay for a landscape service. Every week I go out and talk to those performing the service.
But if any of them ever step on my lawn that even might be an illegal alien (hispanic looking or not), I’ll terminate the service. And I have told my landscape service rep that.
I will not give Romney any slack. He should have had someone making sure stuff like this doesn’t happen. I do.
I’ve seen far too many Americans lose their jobs due to crap like this. Yeah, the unemployment rate is low, but our standard of living is falling. Not looking out for fellow Americans is a big part of the problem.
I personally saw a team of highly skilled, highly experienced American programmers fired so a team of inexperienced Indian programmers could take over the project (an English encyclopedia web site). The site didn’t change one bit after the transfer. Half the programmers had to move to get work.
And this is just a common outsourcing nightmare…illegal aliens are far worse. Foreigners crossing into the US illegally is what I call the ‘gateway crime’. It leads to many many more crimes…both crimes committed by illegal aliens and crimes committed against illegal aliens.
Illegal immigration simply must stop…again, who do you trust will stop it. The Democrats and Republicans giving lip service yet trying to push amnesty law? Or Ron Paul?
If this isn’t biased than why are Rudy fans and Paulians the only ones who agreed with it?