Ron Paul coins seized by Feds
Posted on November 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pm by Contributor ArchiveDespite not being associated with the US Mint, the Liberty Dollar currency has seen modest circulation. Though labeled with a monetary value, the actual worth of the coins is based on the price of the metal - gold, silver, or copper - of which they are physically made.
Though the FBI and Secret Service left cards, neither agency would confirm the raid that federal agents staged on an Indiana Liberty Dollar office. Agents swiped tens of thousands of coins which had been stamped with the image of presidential candidate Ron Paul.
The Liberty Dollar is seen as both an investment, as the value of some metals, most notably gold, has increased against the dollar, and as a protest against the baseless currency championed by the Federal Reserve. Ron Paul is not affiliated with the coinage, but the Texas congressman has long supported a return to a sound currency, and a Ron Paul questioning of Fed chairman Ben Bernanke on the issue has been circulating on the Internet.
As people are free to trade anything they want, from gold to Garbage Pail Kids trading cards, the legality of the raid is highly questionable, with the only justifiable argument seeming to be that the Liberty Dollar “looks similar” to legal tender. People mistaking Ron Paul for Sacagawea notwithstanding, the raid of the coins and bearer certificates seems to amount to a theft from the purchasers of the currency. The founder of the currency and a Ron Paul supporter, Bernard von NotHaus had already filed suit after a consumer alert was issued against the currency last year, and von NotHaus is now urging the owners of the seized property to sue the government as well.
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perhaps as long as his supporters can continue looking at least a bit loonier than he is, Ron Paul can manage to siphon a few more dollars out of people who know he’s against the war and don’t know much else about his insane policies.
Toby, you might want to reconsider your use of the word, ‘loonie,’ in that the Loonie is the Canadian dollar coin, which is rapidly appreciating in value against US currency. Referring to Ron Paul supporters as ‘loonies’ therefore carries the connotation that they are financially sound — certainly more so than ‘feddies.’
I love it when people call Ron Paul insane or wacko and the like. By doing so you are saying that upsetting the status quo is tantamount to being a mental defective. The same status quo that forces us to borrow our own money from a private bank (Federal Reserve) then uses that money to fund wars to feed the military industrial complex. We are 9 trillion dollars in debt and going deeper every day … leaving our children and grandchildren to try to pay it off, while the same debt machine churns on. Anyone who supports the status quo is insane, while those of us who are attempting to change, history will record, are the sane and responsible ones.
It IS a Federal crime to alter currency by stamping or superimposing images on coins - except for the penny.
This is a tragedy of gigantic proportion. To see this simple silver backed barter currency closed in a raid and seizure is utterly ridiculous. It’s very sad to see what America has grown into…
Mark
DigitalMoneyWorld
From what I’ve read, the charges are money laundering and fraud, not specifically the act of creating a private currency. It sounds like an instance of “what can we find to charge this guy with”. The questionable aspect is in the seizing of the gold and silver and whether it exists as assets of the holders of liberty dollars. If so, does that mean they are charging every holder of liberty dollars with laundering and fraud? If not, they should not have seized their gold/silver. If a dry-cleaner gets raided, can they confiscate the clothes as assets of the store owner?
Someone called this in on C-SPAN this AM. They dismissed it with a comment like “Oh another Ron Paul caller, we get loads of them.”
Sadly, the government used the only weapon they really know which is force. All partof
cointelpro 2008
Any other candidates have currency available to collect?
Romney has loads of it.
If Ron Paul expressing a desire to uphold the U.S. Constituion is looney then call me crazy.
I may not like his Iraq position but everything else is exactly what I feel should be governments roll.
Thanks, once again, Ethan for coverage of the news that is both fair and, for the most part, factual…
However, when you say, “The Liberty Dollar is seen as both an investment, as the value of some metals, most notably gold, has increased against the dollar, and as a protest against the baseless currency championed by the Federal Reserve”, the later “protest” comment confuses the issue. The Liberty Dollar folks are not saying that Federal Reserve believers don’t have a right to trust in baseless fiat currency. They just want to exercise their right to honestly trade with each other, “quid pro quo”, substance for substance.
The issue is not that the value of precious metals have “increased against the dollar”, but rather that the Feds overzealous printing of engraved images, (@ a cost of only 25 cents per bill of any denomination, with no accountability for any of it), that makes confidence in FRAUDs, (Federal Reserve Accounting Units of Debt) worth less.
Commenting on the raid yesterday, Chris Powell, secretary/treasurer of Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc. wrote, “This moves seems extraordinarily bold considering that Liberty Dollar’s right to operate already was being litigated in federal court”
Bernard von NotHaus, monetary architect of Liberty Dollar wrote, “But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for minting the gold and silver Libertys have been taken. All this has happened even though Edmond C. Moy, the director of the U.S. Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a U.S. senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Secret Service took all the paper currency too.
At this writing, I still haven’t found that any charges have been made against Liberty Dollar: a Fifth Amendment violation, in that they were “deprived of…property, without due process of law”. Does confiscation first, and making up charges later sound like behavior you should expect and accept from law-enforcement at any level?
To Tobys’ towering intellect, all this may sound a little loony, but have ANY of the other candidates even acknowledged our currency crisis, much less suggested that anything should be done about it. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results. The Feds boundless printing of these pulp fictions has put us in dire straits. “Insane policies” are those promoted by ALL the other candidates who suggest we can improve our economic stability while keeping the status quo.
The Ron Paul/Bernanke face off you mentioned can be seen here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM
This is certainly going to be interesting, as if the Ron Paul crowd wasn’t rowdy enough…
I thought the Paulipalians were funny before, but Ron Paul coins????
Are they going to build an altar for him and sacrifice endangered species?
Funny how it costs $0.25 to print the pretty new government bills that are only worth $0.03
Our productivity is taxed, and thus we no longer produce - rather we consume.
Is it looney to abolish the income tax on productivity? Just wait until they discover they can tax our credit card debt balances.
LibHomo - No, they won’t sacrifice endangered species to Ron.
Virgins. Lots of political virgins.
As a Ron Paul supporter, it doesn’t surprise me. As a coin collecter, it bothers me greatly and I wish I could have afforded the purchase of the Liberty Dollar before this. As someone who thinks, a couple points:
1. The Feds took the company’s records. So it now has the names and addresses of everyone who had purchased from that company. While it may end up being irrelevant, could those who had their coins long purchased and delivered now worry about raids on their homes and places of business for what isn’t a crime?
2. If I were to do a job for someone and we had agreed that my charge would be in these Liberty Dollars, dollars I wouldn’t use personally because I love coins and precious metals (I’ve got two sets of CCCP coins, one from the year of my birth and another from right before it fell into shambles), why shouldn’t it be legitimate? Contract Law.
3. The Ron Paul head dollar would have been an interesting addition to my collection. Even if I were to use it to pay off a debt, it would have gone to someone who was willing to take it. Not against the law.
4. Federal dollars aren’t worth the paper its printed on.